tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post5618374323716193157..comments2024-03-17T07:25:56.478-04:00Comments on Thrilling Days of Yesteryear: One Long Chan: Memories of a Great Movie DetectiveIvan G Shreve Jrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04067177808320053382noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-76761494383717379482012-09-04T18:03:33.167-04:002012-09-04T18:03:33.167-04:00To Brent McKee, still respectful:
It's DORAN,...To Brent McKee, still respectful:<br /><br />It's DORAN, with accent on the second syllable, as in George "Bugs" Moran, another Chicago Irishman of note*.<br /><br /><br />*who was actually a French-Canadian named Adelard Cunin, so there too.Mike DORANnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-25115537331391648722012-08-31T20:52:35.508-04:002012-08-31T20:52:35.508-04:00To Mike Tolan with equal respect and affection:
I...To <b>Mike Tolan</b> with equal respect and affection:<br /><br />In truth when I wrote my initial comment I did refer to Biggers rather than Derr Biggers, but on reading the Wikipedia article on Chang Apana for some of the details of his career, I found that the writer of that article referred to "Derr Biggers" and it is just odd enough as a name that I was able to convince myself that it was some version of a compounded name. <br /><br />It is not an uncommon assumption. Max Allan Collins, whose Nathan Heller novel "Damned In Paradise" was how I discovered the Apana-Chan connection, refers to Derr Biggers in the acknowledgements for the book. Interestingly, Collins opted to write Apana speak as he did in real life, in "broken Pidgin English" because it would "get in the way of the characterization."Brent McKeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14883838112004433045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-72434121135283279372012-08-31T16:40:28.048-04:002012-08-31T16:40:28.048-04:00I always hated Sidney Toler and much preferred War...I always hated Sidney Toler and much preferred Warner Oland, although in retrospect perhaps what I was reacting to was the stylish look and glossy professionalism of the Fox-made Chans versus the Poverty Row pictures. Or maybe it's because my first introduction to the character was an Oland film. (Nah, I just hate Sidney Toler).<br /><br />Even as a kid, Chan's broken English rankled me (partly a hangover from the horrible pigeon spoken by most Hollywood Indians) and made the movies difficult to watch. It wasn't until I moved to New York, and lived wedged in among Chinese and Russian immigrants (both pronoun-dropping languages) that I realized it wasn't <i>entirely</i> a stereotype. Nevertheless, I have no doubt that it would prove even more problematic today than in the past.<br /><br />But he's a classic American creation -- not just a pillar of a distinctly American genre, the detective story, but an immigrant who rises to a position of authority, and walks humbly, yet without fear amongst the rich and powerful. I agree with Mike that a <i>Columbo</i> style approach (which Chan pioneered anyway) might work best for a revival -- certainly better than recasting the character as a hip young single guy. (And I second any call for a movie on Chang Apana -- he was an amazing bundle of contradictions. There's a famous story of him using his whip to drive an escaped leper out from beneath a terrified family's front porch that's about as far from Chan's laconic, cerebral technique as you can get).<br /><br />Last, off topic point: Mary and I went to House Without a Key when we were honeymooning in Waikiki (and in case you were wondering, it doesn't require a key because it doesn't have a door). It was pricy, but I couldn't resist the Chan Connection (as distinct from the Chinese Connection, starring Bruce Lee, which I also like, but which probably wouldn't inspire me to pay $24 for a Mai Tai).Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798340582589737829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-69180191504957277202012-08-30T17:23:06.569-04:002012-08-30T17:23:06.569-04:00I guess that fairness requires I mention this:
I ...I guess that fairness requires I mention this:<br /><br />I only recently saw <i>The Black Camel</i> (1931), the oldest surviving Chan film, for the first time.<br /><br />It's a direct adaptation of a Biggers novel, set (and actually filmed) in Honolulu, and it depicts not only Charlie's home life (with wife and all 10 children) but also his work situation with a Japanese partner named 'Kashimo' - who is an idiot; he makes the future-depicted Chan offspring seems like "little Einsteins".<br />Kashimo appears in the original novel, and is as stoopid there as he is portrayed in the movie. This bit of dialogue will serve as an example of how Warner Oland as Chan dealt with Kashimo, played by Otto Yamoaka:<br /><br /><i>(After Kashimo causes some key evidence to get blown all over a room by a sudden gust of wind:)</i><br /><br /><b>Chan</b>:'Kashimo, you are zebra!'<br /><br /><b>Kashimo</b>:'Zebra? What that?'<br /><br /><b>Chan</b>: 'Sport-model jackass!'<br /><br /><br />You can see this and other examples of Kashimo's ineptitude on <i>The Black Camel</i> DVD, in the third Warner Oland set from Fox<br /><br />As I mentioned above, this comes from Earl Derr Biggers's books, and it does depict, somewhat exaggeratedly, attitudes between Chinese and Japanese that existed at that time - which doesn't really excuse them, but you ought to know.<br />Anyway, the later depiction of the Chan sons was ... well, not as bad as this.<br /><br />Mike Dorannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-62229558666480052442012-08-30T13:54:19.456-04:002012-08-30T13:54:19.456-04:00I would love to see a revival of Charlie Chan myse...I would love to see a revival of Charlie Chan myself. While there are those who think him a stereotype, I think the only real thing that was stereotypical about him was the broken English and perhaps constantly quoting Confucius. While he may be overly apologetic and polite (as a Southern gentleman I can be as well), Charlie Chan was not submissive. Not only in the films does Mr. Chan take charge of crime scenes, but it is not unusual for him to bark orders to individuals of Northern European descent. Similarly, I think to describe Charlie Chan as non-aggressive is missing the mark. It is true Mr. Chan was not a violent man, but he was among the most dogged of detective in pursuing criminals--nothing could deter him. Over all I would say he was a very positive character and far from any of the stereotypes of the 20's, 30's, and 40's!Terence Towles Canotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18397088843628331615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-20701007444342591862012-08-30T12:50:16.760-04:002012-08-30T12:50:16.760-04:00To add to Mike's amusement, it's tradition...To add to Mike's amusement, it's traditional to shorthand "Arthur Conan Doyle" as "Conan Doyle," as in, say, "The interesting thing about Conan Doyle's stories is that etc blah blah".<br /><br />It is not a "compound surname" like the double-barreling of the names of married landed english gentry ("Lord and Lady Copperbottom-Smythe"), and it's a mystery to me why we do this.<br /><br />Chris Vosburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-50029597204991677532012-08-30T10:55:13.956-04:002012-08-30T10:55:13.956-04:00This is for Brent McKee, with respect and affectio...This is for Brent McKee, with respect and affection:<br /><br /><b>Earl Derr Biggers</b><br /><br /><b>Derr</b> was Mr. Biggers's <i>middle name</i> (it was his mother's maiden name).<br /><br />Actually, I've always found it kind of charming when people, upon seeing a triple-barreled name, assume a hyphen between #2 and #3 (even when there isn't one).<br /><br />Quite a few respectable bookstores alphabetize Alexander McCall Smith under M rather than S, even with no hyphen in sight.<br /><br />There's a respected film reference on character actors that lists Michael Clarke Duncan under C, although you don't usually find hyphenated names on Chicago's South Side.<br /><br />I haven't yet seen David Ogden Stiers under O, or Mary Tyler Moore under T, but then I haven't seen all the reference books (especially the British ones, where this seems to happen most often).<br /><br />I hope I've made it clear that this isn't a gripe of any sort, but merely an observation of a possibly amusing situation ...<br /> ..."Isn't it funny that ...", that sort of thing.<br /><br />Mike Dorannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-36669688177545385362012-08-29T17:10:14.347-04:002012-08-29T17:10:14.347-04:00Charlie Chan was made to suffer from the asian ste...Charlie Chan was made to suffer from the asian stereotypes which Hollywood shamelessly plundered for comedy relief-- among other things-- for so long into the last century.<br /><br />Finally, it was left to Neil Simon to skewer the hell out of it in "Murder by Death" with his "Sidney Wang" character who had the usual afflictions: an affinity for aphorism:<br /><br /><b>Sidney Wang</b>: Conversation like television set on honeymoon: unnecessary.<br /><br />Until finally "Milo Perrier" had had enough:<br /><br /><b>Sidney Wang</b>: Calm yourself. Man who argue with cow on wall is like train without wheels: very soon get nowhere. <br /><b>Milo Perrier</b>: Oh be quiet! I'm sick of your fortune cookies! <br /><b>Sidney Wang</b> [undaunted]: Man who is sick of fortune cookies...[argument ensues]<br /><br />And the "asian shorthand" style of speaking:<br /><br /><b>Sidney Wang</b>: What meaning of this, Mr. Twain? <br /><b>Lionel Twain</b>: I will tell you, Mr. Wang, if YOU can tell ME why a man who possesses one of the most brilliant minds of this century can't say his *prepositions* or *articles!* "What IS THE," Mr. Wang! "What IS THE meaning of this?" <br /><b>Sidney Wang</b>: That what I said! "What meaning of this?"<br /><br />and:<br /><br /><b>Sidney Wang</b>: Is confusing. <br /><b>Lionel Twain</b>: IT! IT is confusing! Say your goddamn pronouns!<br /><br />I imagine if resurrected, the character would probably not be as steeped in these hoary and outdated trappings, and for that, I'd be appreciative.<br /><br />dfordoom, I wasn't all that offended by Guy Ritchie and Robert Downey's rock'em sock'em Sherlock. He was, after all, "brown as a nut and fit as a lath."<br /><br />I'd pay good money not to see Matt Frewer's Sherlock characterization ever again, which I saw a few minutes of recently in a Hallmark channel movie. Just awful.Chris Vosburgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-76996312225434732912012-08-28T23:45:41.707-04:002012-08-28T23:45:41.707-04:00I really hope Charlie Chan doesn't suffer the ...I really hope Charlie Chan doesn't suffer the same fate as Sherlock Holmes has suffered in the recent TV and movie travesties.dfordoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306293859869179118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-22823893760231978192012-08-28T18:06:11.293-04:002012-08-28T18:06:11.293-04:00The problem so many have with Charlie Chan today i...The problem so many have with Charlie Chan today is that his whole approach is taken at face value.<br />The "obsequeiousness" is simply good manners taken to a far degree.<br />The "pidgin English" is actually English-as-a-second-language, again given high emphasis.<br />These qualities are shown as Chan's effort to get his adversaries to underestimate him - to assume that he isn't as smart as they are, which makes their comeuppance more satisfying for the reader/watcher.<br />If a more modern audience recognizes this as the <i>Columbo</i> playbook - that's exactly what it is, but many of fiction's great detectives have used variations of it over the years.<br /><br />Doing Charlie Chan today poses another problem: the desire of "creative" types to "modernize/update" the character.<br />"Charlie Chan" only really works as an older character, a settled, traditional family man with official standing. This makes the villain's dismissal of him more binding than would be the case with a private eye, young or old. Chan must represent not only the law but <i>tradition</i> - right over wrong.<br />A "young, hip" Chan won't work.<br />So - are than any older Asian actors (mid-50s or thereabouts) who might fit the bill today?Mike Dorannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-10834557769137824932012-08-28T17:41:19.406-04:002012-08-28T17:41:19.406-04:00One of the Honolulu police officers that Derr Bigg...One of the Honolulu police officers that Derr Biggers used as an inspiration for Charlie Chan was a man named Chang Apana. Apana spoke fluent Chinese and Hawaiian as well as Hawaiian Pidgin, but only limited English. He never learned to read. His weapon of choice was a black snake whip. Derr Biggers acknowledged him as the inspiration for the Chan charactter and he met Warner Oland on the set of "The Black Camel" when it was shooting in Hawaii. <br /><br />I wonder how people would feel about a film about the real man? Would it be embraced or protested because it portrayed Apana as illiterate and speaking Pidgin Hawaiian?Brent McKeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14883838112004433045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-3805546008851891852012-08-28T16:47:35.905-04:002012-08-28T16:47:35.905-04:00My Chan movies memories are all of post-Midnight t...My Chan movies memories are all of post-Midnight television. Sneaking up and keeping the volume low so I don't disturb the rest of the family. Snacking on crackers and peanut butter with chocolate milk. I can't do with Chan. He's my household god.Caftan Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05936895555808823221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-19773913654317386382012-08-28T16:00:32.417-04:002012-08-28T16:00:32.417-04:00While I don't disagree that Charlie Chan would...While I don't disagree that Charlie Chan would be a tough sell today, the time would seem to be right for a revival, since the Chinese market has become so heavily courted by Hollywood.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11376065182154885503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7307577717655310918.post-62594536218657611812012-08-28T15:47:45.870-04:002012-08-28T15:47:45.870-04:00I'm going to read the whole piece, because lon...I'm going to read the whole piece, because long experience of <i>TDOY</i> has taught me that no matter the subject -- Old Time Radio, antediluvian television, Golden Age cinema, or obscure regional snack foods -- it will prove both informative and entertaining.<br /><br />However...I'm having a little trouble getting past <i>this</i> sentence:<br /><br /><i>I have fond memories of Charlie Chan, beginning with <b>The Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan</b>, a Saturday morning cartoon produced by Hanna-Barbera Studios.</i><br /><br />I really thought I was tougher than this. Maybe it's just low blood sugar...I'll go make lunch and try again.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02798340582589737829noreply@blogger.com